Web Statistics [Loud Era] Comics - 5.33 Hospitality

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AUTHOR COMMENTS:

Reply mitchellbravo, December 23rd, 2013, 11:30 am

You can't piss on hospitality- I won't allow it.


Merry Christmas, friends.


READER'S DISCUSSION:

Reply The_Hankerchief, December 25th, 2013, 2:59 am

D'awwwww.

Thanks for all the entertainment. Merry Christmas! (I know I said it once, but never hurts to do it again)

Reply mitchellbravo, December 26th, 2013, 9:36 am

@The_Hankerchief: Thanks so much Hank!! I read your comment yesterday and it put a big smile on my face. Thank you for reading and commenting so often! It makes me feel like all this scribbling away is worthwhile :) Hope you had a beautiful and blessed holiday.

Reply Oly-RRR, July 30th, 2014, 7:50 pm

D'awww! 8D

I am really enjoying the story so far and I start worrying about dates under the pages getting closer to current time - I'll have to get used to reading a page once a few weeks instead of AS MANY AS I LIKE EVERY DAY pretty soon at this rate! :P

That's what bugs me about comics - the story so far took you years of work and even people like me who read slowly and notice details and stop to think can read it in about a week. Though it's more annoying in real life when you show your comic to someone and they SKIM THROUGH and I keep thinking "I spent MONTHS on that!!!" then... XD

Reply mitchellbravo, July 30th, 2014, 9:44 pm

@Oly-RRR: I'm glad to hear you're liking it! And I was thinking of that as well!! You're almost at the current chapter as we speak D:> I'm going to do my best to keep working diligently and trying not to fall into depression-fueled hiatuses but it's so easy to fall off the wagon :( The scene I'm working on now, once I finish it, if I run it on weekdays it'll carry the narrative for almost three weeks which hopefully will give me time to get at least a good head start on the next scene... I just need ot keep this damn story moving, you know?

Well on the bright side your thoughtful comments help to make the years spent seem very worthwhile!! :D I love getting all comments, even just "lol"s and things like that, but it's certainly a special treat when someone has some more indepth commentary as well!

ARGH YES. That's one of those thins I eventually got to telling myself when I find myself suiciding over a detailed background- "Not a person in the world is going to spend more than at most forty three seconds regarding this panel, stop niggling and just make it slightly better than adequate" XD

The weirdest thing about the temporal dissonance is looking at, for instance, the scene that's coming up at the beginning of the next chapter, which
a. takes place in July
b. was drawn in February
yet
c. I have an association with it and autumn for some reason
so it takes me longer than it should to put together what month it "happened" and what month I "happened" it :P Not to mention, as I've seen you acknowledge on some of your older pages, scenes that got made during a rough patch in our lives that are forever associated with those circumstances, at least to us when we reread them.

Reply Oly-RRR, July 30th, 2014, 10:23 pm

@mitchellbravo: Aw well, I think you've already done an impressive amount of pages and I'm trying to work on comics more regularly too so we just gotta keep on truckin'!

And yes, it's been a lot of fun talking with you - I love both getting comments and getting replies on comments I leave others! I mean I realise that not everyone has enough time to reply to every comment and all but it's always uplifting when a conversation happens, and it's something that can be done with webcomics only, talking with the author directly right as the story develops.

I agree, it's weird how pages are sort of in several seasons like that! Like the current part of the main Cop Story plot happens in September and it's not really obvious because of British weather but I'm pretty sure it will take me a year AT LEAST to get to anything wintery and then I'm likely to end up drawing Christmas scenes in July or something. Comics are weird like that.

Reply mitchellbravo, July 30th, 2014, 10:57 pm

@Oly-RRR: http://www.sunshinedaydream.biz/assets/images/buttons/keep-on-truckin-button.jpg You be the one in blue, I'll be the green one!! :D

I feel the same way (or else I think our conversation would have stopped long ago). Some people are very spartan about readership interaction- and given how terrifyingly misguided or creepy some readerships can be, I can understand it in a lot of circumstances. But for me a huge motivating factor in putting my comic on the web is the potential to get dialogue going with people who aren't my mom :P I think if I ever got to some point of terrifying fame where I had to get rid of my comment section, I'd be really sad to lose it.

Doesn't that feel so discouraging when you think of things like that? XP It's like when it gets toward the end of one season, I start looking forward to the next season and want to draw scenes that take place then, but I'd have to really up my game to be keeping up with that- especially for chapters like this one where it's a toooooooon of pages over a really short timespan.

Reply Oly-RRR, July 31st, 2014, 12:36 am

@mitchellbravo: Yeah, I feel the same way - on one hand it would be nice if my comic gets more readers, on the other hand with a certain amount of readers I would have to be more reserved online.

And I am friends with my mum too but talking about writing is impossible with her - we just got to the point where we can discuss plots of shows without getting annoyed but with comics we both keep our distance, she likes the art and respects this weird project I dump so much time on, I don't talk to her about characters and stories. It took us some time to get to this arrangement but it seems for the best in our case - before Cop Story there was a time I really wanted my family to like my stories (and they are just as far from writing fiction as it gets - they sort of pick any plot apart until all you can write is a documentary, most likely something like Mythbusters) and in the beginning of Cop Story mum kept asking "why do you write all this?" and I was getting upset because I didn't expect it from her but turned out she thought I was doing it to be contrary to the whole world or something and I just really needed to learn to do this thing without looking back on anyone. I mean it's really easy to pick someone you trust and follow ALL their opinions blindly instead of thinking critically. It was a really weird situation because in other areas we are pretty much pals at this point.

So yeah, talking online is practically my only chance to talk about it all! I have a couple of local friends who are into comics but we don't meet often and so don't get to talk about comics enough.

And it IS kinda discouraging - I only got to the end of that summer because I skipped all that time Chance spent off work (which I kind of regret sometimes but all in all it was necessary). But then the rest of the first case in both London and Newton develops during one day so I'm about to spend months drawing ONE DAY, woo. :P

Reply mitchellbravo, July 31st, 2014, 10:32 am

@Oly-RRR: Exactly. I'm lucky in that I don't have any scary people in the comments at this point- or if I do, they know well enough to not pour it into an internet comment box.

I think I just happened to be really lucky with my mom with regard to my story. She thinks it's absolutely the tops, which I know is partly because she's my mom :P but she really enjoys it when I bring her a new page I'm working on. It's nice because i can show her the page at different stages of completion and get head-pats that can motivate me out of a slump if I get in one. My dad has never really read any of my work, though he does appreciate the art when I show it to him because he used to be a pretty talented watercolor painter in his heyday and can give me tips on how to get a certain effect and stuff like that. My sister doesn't read or look at it at all, though she does encourage me- like she'll come in my room and see that I'm working and she'll say "Awww, you're so cute working on your comic :)" (Which now I've typed it out sounds really patronizing and condescending but within this context it really isn't) I wonder what it is that makes your mom feel so averse to the story you're telling. But like you said it's good you didn't just modify the whole story to make it to her (or anybody else's) liking.

I find it's just tough to get people in real life who are familiar with webcomics as being a Real Thing, as opposed to people who tell me time and time again "You ought to get this published! This is really good!" "It is published, that's why it's online." "Well I mean really published, like in books at comic stores! You'd sell a lot!" Well-intentioned people who genuinely have no idea I've actually put any thought into all this, basically XD

And if you find people who get that, finding ones who'd find my story appealing enough to them to not only read it but talk about it at any length and now the available population is like .002% of the people I know in real life. Eh. Better off sticking on the internet where at least geography isn't a barrier!

LOL YES. And you just gotta get ready for the marathon of getting it all finished. I mean, we're somewhat better off than some artists who've spent years and their comics haven't even transpired past a week. On the site I used to host my comic, I met the guy who does this comic http://mansionofe.comicgenesis.com/ on the forums- we've done some art swaps and things with each other so I've read almost the entire comic- anyway, point is he's been working on this thing updating daily for 11 years now and because of simply how many plot threads and characters he has, I think they're only on the SECOND DAY. I did an interview with him when he hit the 10 year mark. That's a man with dedication, right there XD

Reply Oly-RRR, July 31st, 2014, 5:20 pm

@mitchellbravo: Aww, that's neat! My stepdad occasionally sees my art and he knows my DA address but we rarely discuss it. In a way I think it's good, like sometimes I wish they'd be actively supportive same way I sometimes wish my family was more emotional, not the Disney kind of way but still, but all in all I'm glad they recognise that it's a thing I do that's important for me, same as I recognise stuff they fill their free time with. In an ideal world we would all be more supportive, I guess, but then I can think of some people (like that woman I mentioned) who actively disapprove of harmless interests of their family members because THEY have a better idea of what other people should fill their free time with, so it could be worse...

I tried to talk about what exactly mum has against Cop Story a couple of times and I think she just doesn't like "depressing" stories or at least isn't comfortable that I'm writing one. I mean she doesn't have some of those prejudiced ideas, though she grew up in other times so she is kind of less understanding about some issues than people in our generation can be. But like I said, it could be worse.

And yeah, exactly! Everyone I know who draws comics locally has quite different views on a lot of stuff and while it's not the kind of stuff that would stop us from hanging together from time to time it doesn't let certain conversation happen. So yeah, the internet is great that way! :D

And ooh, that man is an example to us all! And another comic I need to read someday.

Reply mitchellbravo, July 31st, 2014, 6:56 pm

@Oly-RRR: Yeah that's true, it's good that they at least respect that it's a meaningful hobby to you- a lot of people don't have that from their parents, I mean imagine if that lady you had mentioned was your mom instead. Some people just never seemed to internalize "Different strokes for different folks" and "If it ain't hurting anybody..."

I guess that could make sense. I don't see your story as depressing though, I mean it deals with really dark topics but I don't read it and then walk away feeling morose afterward. Like, it's not relentlessly miserable, I guess is what I'm saying :P

It's definitely a big and very self-referential archive to dig into. I like it quite a bit especially considering it's not normally a genre I'd choose to read. The nice thing is the author keeps a recap page going with links to relevant pages, and also makes links to prevoius relevant pages in the comments to help with continuity. Definitely a different kind of comic, for sure.

Reply Oly-RRR, July 31st, 2014, 7:59 pm

@mitchellbravo: Yeaaah... D:

And I don't find it too depressing either (as well as stuff I tend to watch), I find it hard to definite why exactly, sort of like there's a possibility for characters that their situations will get better or they'll just learn to live with it but I guess everyone sees these things differently. It's like I once asked mum "But you don't find Tarantino depressing?" and she said "No because it feels more like a legend than a real story!" and I don't get it (and literally cried for a while the first time I watched Reservoir Dogs). Any believable depiction of pain and such seems real to me no matter what the context is but at the same time it doesn't necessarily make any story depressing for me.

Haha, I'd like to get to the point of keeping a recap page that would be actually needed! But I know someone who updates weekly for 8 years at this point http://flakypastry.runningwithpencils.com/ and that also seems like a huge archive to me - how do they all do it? XD

Reply mitchellbravo, July 31st, 2014, 8:51 pm

@Oly-RRR: "I find it hard to definite why exactly, sort of like there's a possibility for characters that their situations will get better or they'll just learn to live with it" That's exactly how I feel about it, like I don't feel like your characters are condemned to a life of sadness- even for characters like Quint who at least from what I've seen seems to be the most broken, there's still a hope that things are gonna turn out okay for him. I had mentioned the show Rescue Me a while ago, and that's a lot of the way that show felt for me, really. Like shitty things keep happening to these dudes, and you KNOW shitty things are gonna keep happening to these dudes because that's what their lives are, but they keep on trucking anyway and sometimes they find something to smile about, even if it's just each other's company.

That comic's title seems really familiar to me but clicking on it I don't think I've ever seen it before??? Hmmm, now i'm trying to place where I've heard of it! Wow, weekly updates for 8 years is impressive. I'm always astonished by people who can stick to deadlines so consistently for so long, whether its daily or weekly (I know there's literally a 700% difference between the two workloads, but it's the consistency that amazes me).

And I know what you mean... if I made a recap page, it would be like "Sssooo, we only saw this character last chapter, but that was a year and a half ago, so um... yeah remember when they did that thing. And um, you know"

Speaking of good recap pages: http://ivstudios.net/inhumation/ IV does a cool thing where he makes a little comic that summarizes each chapter really briefly and in a breezy irreverent way :P His comic's easy enough to follow that I don't think it's really "needed" in his case, but I guess mileage may vary there, and it's clear he had fun putting it together :P

Reply Oly-RRR, July 31st, 2014, 9:58 pm

@mitchellbravo: Aw, that makes me want to start on Rescue Me ASAP!

And yeah, well-spotted. When it comes to Quinton I had to include stuff about him actively considering suicide in the plot though stories with disabled characters killing themselves are way overdone and don't do anyone any good but I had to show him getting to the lowest point before going up. Besides it's just a complicated subject - at some point he says that if he were a cat or a dog he'd get put down and it would be considered mercy to which he gets a retort that he's human and has more ways of enjoying life to which he replies that he is also an adult who can communicate his choices. Which is a point to consider except he doesn't quite see all his options at the time. And since I got to this - often when a topic of suicide comes up if it's an able-bodied person everyone goes "WHAT NO LIFE IS BEAUTIFUL" but if the person in question has any kind of disability the same people say "It's their choice, of course it's understandable!" and while I don't think there can be one simple answer anyway double standards like that annoy me.

Re: Flaky Pastry - it should be on my links page (which I really need to re-work so it has banners instead of just links and such) but since it's been around for a while maybe you stumbled on it somewhere else!

For me just sticking to any regular schedule is impressive - I can have times when I draw a lot but it's never a regular rhythm.

And ooh, another comic to bookmark! :D And speaking of comic summaries, there will be something of this sort in the beginning of the next chunk of the main plot but since it should happen relatively soon I won't spoil it! I'm just glad it's the bit that comes after the big hiatus since I don't think I'll be pulling it off before each chapter.

Reply mitchellbravo, July 31st, 2014, 11:20 pm

@Oly-RRR: That makes a lot of sense. It's definitely an issue that's easily mishandled under the pen of even some strong writers. I can understand the argument you have him making and yeah, there is that double-standard that comes up a lot- I mean, I've even been guilty of that line of thinking myself. Well, I'm going to hold out hope for Quint, even if it's just in some strange alternate universe that's only in my head :P

I'm thinking I may have come across it in like Project Wonderful type stuff, perhaps, but since time travel isn't a thing I don't suppose I can really know. It's too bad there isn't a ctrl+f for our memories.

I'm the same way w/regards to having a regularity with drawing. I think the longest I've gone in recent years is like 2 or 3 months without drawing anything. But it's like, if it's not coming naturally and I try to force it, I end up with pages of stilted-looking crap that has to get redrawn anyway, you know? I try to just strike while the iron's hot instead.

Do you know when you're gonna be starting putting up Chapter 2 yet? Just so I can be emotionally prepared to enjoy another comic and all :P

Reply Oly-RRR, August 1st, 2014, 12:59 am

@mitchellbravo: I don't think it's possible to come up with some general "rule" for suicides. I mean even Quinton's situation aside, when someone with depression or other mental issue says they don't see anything worth living for people argue but when you don't see something you don't see something, you can look for ways to find it but you can't just flip a switch in your head or fast-forward a year ahead. :/ And I'm kind of softer writer than I'd sometimes like to be so even speaking spoiler-free Quinton has some good moments ahead of him. BUT NOT IN HIS NEXT COMIC, NOPE, ABANDON ALL HOPE THERE. 8I

When it comes for Chapter 2 (technically it's Chapter 1 Part 2 but I still haven't decided if I want to keep the confusing numbering system - I came up with it when I thought each case MUST be a separate chapter and now I see this system won't last long anyway). I'm aiming for late August so I guess it means September (this heatwave makes me disappointingly slow, if I do anything during the day at all I can't do much after that but my folks are out of town for the weekend and no new work until Monday at least so there's a chance of some proper comic activity). XP The actual schedule is basically this - I need to run two or three one-page shorts because I got some feedback on those and it seems somewhat rude to take up someone's time and then keep drawing everything besides that stuff (that and I quite like those shorts but I'd move them till after Quinton's longer short if it wasn't for that). After I should draw that terrifying comic about Quinton (the thumbnails are mostly done already, I just need to check a couple of things). But I'm slowly starting to fit Chapter 2 stuff between that - there should be two covers (one is more of a teaser picture that a cover but it's fitting in front of this part and it's already pencilled) and then I thumbnail most of part 2 and can work on it. I already had the "summary" pages thumbnailed months ago but I want to fix a couple of things there since I can do better now.

This heatwave is really disappointing but I am trying to remind myself that I got to the highly unsual speed of a page in 3-4 days for a bit around last August so there's a chance of it happening again. It's weird, I can't wait to get to draw it all a lot but even typing seems to take more energy these last few days.

Reply mitchellbravo, August 1st, 2014, 8:35 pm

@Oly-RRR: LOL. I appreciate the warning and will prepare myself for sad/mad Quinton time D:

Alright awesome!!! It always sounds way more burdensome when you have to lay out all the things you have to get done, I know. Hopefully you'll catch your August second wind again :P

I'm having a problem now where I'm really excited to work on the comic and get a little ahead, even thinking about scenes that aren't going to get worked un realistically until like 2015, but last night when I sat down to try to get a little done, I spent an *hour* agonizing over just the sketches for TWO PANELS. I must have redrawn them each somewhere between 5-10 times. I tried to move onto a third panel but after I tried that one three times I figured I was just in a rut and ought to just stop. I don't know if this happens to other people, but for me it's like sometimes when I'm sketching everything comes out loose and flowy (you know, like a sketch) and nothing needs to be belabored or kvetched over, but then sometimes like last night everything comes out heavy-handed, overly calculated, and really unnatural and wrong. I haven't been able to isolate the conidtions that determine whether a drawing attempt is going to go one way or the other X|

Reply Oly-RRR, August 1st, 2014, 9:49 pm

@mitchellbravo: I have this thing with sketches too - sometimes it just doesn't flow! What I do is just keeping multiple things in progress at once so if I want to work on the comic and sketching doesn't click I can ink or colour something for a bit instead. It doesn't always work perfectly (like I right now I ended up with a lot of inking in every direction) but generally it helps.

Well, that or going to look for how other people handled similar scenes - in art books, comics, television, anything. You don't have to uh, copy it but sometimes seeing how other people do stuff helps to get of the spot you're stuck at.

Reply mitchellbravo, August 2nd, 2014, 1:16 am

@Oly-RRR: I gave it another stab tonight and I think I figured out that if I'm hunched too close to the page, that's when I tend to get niggly and nitpicky and unable to get the grand scheme down. I managed to get a page and a half sketched earlier! Which I felt good about until I realized how much work is still left to be done, and also until I had to erase one of the panels I'd did last night because it still wasn't working anyway X[

I need to keep more things in varying states of completion so that I can do that. The problem is that I tend to just burn through whatever I have, and also I'm usually hesitant to start on the scene to follow if I haven't finished the current oen for some reason. Like I guess I'm worried there will be some kind of continuity error if I skip around too much. 8{ LIFE IS HARD.

That's a good point too. It's not like anything I draw is impossible to find references for, either. It's usually like "running" or "man lifting can" and other stuff like that that gives astounding and unnecessary amounts of google image search results :P

Reply Oly-RRR, August 2nd, 2014, 1:40 pm

@mitchellbravo: Ooh, a page and a half is good! :D But yeah, it's kind of hard to feel good about progress when you know there's a lot more to do. I usually try to just not think about it but it doesn't always work.

When it comes to references I ended up obsessively building up a folder of them - it's not like I save every human photo ever but when I know I have trouble with some particular angle or movement and I find a helpful reference I keep it just it case this stuff comes up again.

Reply mitchellbravo, August 2nd, 2014, 2:05 pm

@Oly-RRR: Yeah being aware of the realities of the work load gets pretty discouraging. I try to not think about it but it's kinda hard when I start thinking "Wow! Yeah! So much got done! I'm almost finished! I just have to... awww."

Reply Squirreltastic-Blue, December 15th, 2014, 1:35 pm

She won.


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